Don’t take it personally.
Some of these thoughts might be the thoughts of employees at Cyan worlds Inc. However, this blog is my own and my thoughts have not been censored. These are my thoughts and mine alone.
Don’t take it personally
The horde was at my back, I was running away from them. Why did one of the horde leaders say I was stupid and have everyone start attacking me? Being an alliance I have never done anything to that horde leader to make him upset at me personally. Oh wait. He’s a game character and its part of the story. I walk away from World of Warcraft knowing not to take it personally.
Why it is so hard to realize that in Myst Online this same thing happens. Instead of NPC we use digital actors. Digital actors will not fall in love with you, hate you, and despise you IN REAL LIFE. In the world of the game, this includes In Game forums, these characters can and will do these things. They are characters, not real, don’t take it personally. D’ni is not a real place. It’s a fiction place, its drama is fictional. The storyline is fictional. Some people like blurring the line while in-game. They like to think the game is real. We call these people role players. They might say mean things about you because you believe in one group or the other. You play a video game. Don’t take it personal, they are playing a role. Just so you know we do not plan on making a server for Roleplayers. Everyone will be on one server, “living” in one world. If a role-player is bugging me in other games what do I do? I ignore it. That’s my suggestion to you.
D’ni is not real, Digital actors can’t hurt you personally, because they are no different hen NPC’s. If NPC’s hurt you personally, then umm I can’t help you.
BTW Vortmax sorry you deal with people calling you crap. It sucks and shouldn't happen.
DRCL and the Myst Worlds Site council
The DRCL were created as a group to interact with the DRC, and the DRC only. The DRCL might be in Myst Online: Uru Live. I don’t know, the DRC will decide that. Not Cyan. DRC does not equal Cyan. Cyan = Cyan. Does anyone even know what role the DRCL will play in Myst Online: Uru Live? No, because Myst Online isn’t here right now. Where this broke down was the OOC Town halls. Were they planned when the DRCL were elected. No, but it seemed like a good way to get information out. Do I know if DRCL will hold OOC meetings in Myst Online? I don’t. But personally I’d rather say on the urulive site
The DRCL is not the MystWorlds Site Counci. The MystWorld site council was designed by Ubisoft for the Myst Worlds site not Uru at that time. Tweek let me take apart your blog post. I am not doing this to attach you just let you in on a secret.
"The seems to be working with Cyan, I know they want to keep stuff under their hats and what not but at times it seems they don’t want to let “outsiders” in, as a result they are missing out on thousand of fans they can use for potential feedback along with other things, shutting doors could hurt in the long run."
So creating a group of 5-10 people will allow use to hear our fans better then reading the forums and creating a section for suggestion
In fact I think now we are actually listening to our fans more because we are getting a full list of what people are thinking and not a small few. In fact we take these suggestions into a meeting and discuss them. Most of the time they are things Cyan already planned to do.
“This is going to be an unpopular comment but the flow of information was much better when Ubisoft were about.”
How much of this information got to the community at large and not just the Myst Worlds Council?
"And that leads me to another point about this DRCL stuff, they come out requesting for Liaisons and let us decide how, and thats been it aside from floating the Town Hall idea."
Cyan did not ask for liaisons. We have made this clear time and time again. It’s all apart of the story. Yes, it caused chaos at first, but you came together to get it done. That’s a great thing. If you couldn’t get it done, Cyan’s designers would have had the DRC decided to go a different direction. I believed that this community could get it done and you proved me right.
"They’ve given us no direction, no job description (we had to write it ourself and send it to Ron at gametap to get something done with it) requets for a Liaison site on a neutral place has gone unheard as far as I can tell."
How many of us in real life do exactly what our job description says. The DRC knew not to give you a job description because they know it will continue to change. The story changes, of course your roles would change too. We were listening; the DRC even said that role could change. Sorry about not putting the DRCL on neutral site. We haven’t even had time to update the DRC site because we are getting ready for launch.
"To be honest I am starting to get pretty pissed off with it, I get the feeling they will say “well we didn’t expect it to kick off until Live starts” which would cause me to ask why didn’t they set up Liaisons then instead of back in april."
Cyan thought it would be nice to do something for fans by bringing back some story of the DRC coming back. We even said amongst ourselves and Gametap that it couldn’t be much because we are working on launch and the next story. Maybe it would have been better not to any DRC stuff. I don’t know. It was something small we could do for everyone that has been waiting for Myst Online.
Maybe that’s the biggest story element you can see at this point. The DRC are not active in the forum and the community because they are busy getting the cavern ready for new explorers.
Cyan is getting ready for launch; this includes the designers of the new story. I’d rather they work for the future then not have anything when the future gets here. BTW there are things out there fans have not found yet.
I can’t wait for launch. Please discuss, I won't take it personally.
12 Comments:
Well, I disagree with some and agree with some. I'm not sure if the "drama is fictional." When we say "you are you" it means you're putting yourself into this game. So I don't want to dismiss misbehavior as an okay thing to do because I was "playing a role." In Prologue, I yelled at Brian Fioca when Sharper was breaking into the Pub. That was real. After the event, we both apologized.
The Internet is great because it lets us connect. But its downside is that we often don't realize that behind each username is a real person. Even when we do, some of us are still arrogant and mean.
As far as Ubisoft being more responsive, I have to agree and disagree. I made great friendships with Ubisofters, so naturally they have talked more with me than Cyan has. But I also agree that Cyan's forums and support site are a good way to get feedback from a wide pool of fans and that this is better than small council. I also think Cyan has also been more involved in the Forums now than ever. Small councils also help, in theory, because they collect/distribute data from multiple fan sites (not just Cyan's official Uru Live site).
One of my favorite parts of Uru Live was before it ever got started. I was excited to check the DRC site each week for updates. I loved how Cyan presented game dev updates in an in-character form. I loved that I was talking to "real" people in D'ni. So I'm sad that we haven't heard more from the DRC. But that's understandable.
Where do we go from here?
The DRCL should be an IC identity. Explorers should think before they post and treat all explorers with respect. We should all have fun.
Your blog is nicely written as always, and quite impassioned. However, it does not make it clearer for me.
When we voted for DRC liasons it made sense to me that they would have a communication role. Since there is no Mystworlds site council right now, it also makes sense to me this would at least be a part of their role, Mystworlds site council reps. That, and communications. The big role of the DRC reps appears to be communications. They have town meetings, sometime in character and sometimes outside of character.
You say that people are confused. That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that people are confused, because it is confusing.
Hope this helps.
Pheh, fans wanting to feel special and unique as usual.The elite fans that put a lot into it, as always, want to get the news first. While the MWC did some good things, the DRCL is not the same.
If anything... While I can happily blame the fans, I'd lay some blame with Cyan for intentionally blurring the lines between where the reality begins and the fantasy begins. That has always been one of my biggest complaints about Cyan.
I, as much as anyone else, would like there to be more to the game during the beta. But, I understand and appreciate the decision to test what there is. It's a good reason to continue bringing in new testers, especially as people get bored.
That's the way of these things. Frankly, Myst Online or whatever you want to call it won't have a community until there is new content and story line - until it does go live.
Until then, keep testing, be happy. And stop making mountains out of molehills.
"BTW there are things out there fans have not found yet."
Well, now I hate you :-D
Just a follow up entry addressing some of the items brought up in your post Ryan:
http://grey-skies.net/blog/disillusion-a-follow-up/
As to your comment "J" sorry you feel that way, you have actually touched upon something I have been meaning to write an entry about. I can't speak for everyone cause perhaps with some people your comments are true, I don't think they apply to me but I guess I'm biased there ;)
I'm not to concerned about getting news first, oh don't get me wrong I like getting news early because it gets people visiting my site (basica foundation of web traffic there) However alot of the time news is posted elsewhere in the community then gets around to DJC not bothered about that.
But this is something I'll get into more later ^_^
There is already a community, and although we fight and scream its a pretty good one, I have seen far worse. And regards to your comment about mountains and mole hills I find that counterproductive (I'm not attacking you here let me be clear on that I am just providing a counter to your comments). To me its saying "shut up stop complaining about things" we need to be able to voice concerns and critisims and comments like that (and worse) have actually made people in the community afraid to provide such comments and complaints and thats not just right.
Regarding the blurring of lines:
I think our pop culture is entering the Era of Meta. I'm seeing it in Uru, ARGs, Colbert, Borat, etc. I personally love the line-blurring as a way to suspend disbelief in my entertainment. But for many who might not be so meta-savvy, it can be frustrating and confusing. Sometimes even I'm not sure whether a politician on Colbert's show is getting angry at his comments legitimately, or is merely "playing it up" to get a funny reaction because he understands Colbert's MO. And though I should know better, sometimes I try to "translate" a DRC comment into a Cyan Worlds comment.
First, I don't worry about what a few people have called me, and neither should you. I find it frustrating, but as you pointed out, the best thing to do is ignore them. (Or maybe rant a little to your friends.) So that's what I do. :D
My main complaint has been a lack of information from all sides. We're supposed to be doing a job that's all about information, passing it back and forth, and we're getting almost nothing from both the explorers and the DRC. And that is endlessly frustrating.
You've actually given me a lot of insight into what this job will be in the future. It may be our fault for bringing in the Cyan/GameTap meetings, which has added to the confusion as it seems. (Now that it's becoming clear that has been one of the issues with people.)
And it's really hard for me to keep Cyan and the DRC separate in my mind at times. I flow between IC and OOC really easily. I know that in-game, the DRC is the one in charge of things, and Cyan just hangs out down there, makes games based on the DRC's discoveries, and helps fund the Restoration. But I also know that out-of-game, you guys are the ones writing the story, and telling the DRC what to do and say. That's kind of why we keep coming to you for help, when the DRC is ignoring us. I understand that you're really too busy right now to work on this, and I have to support you getting the game ready as your first priority.
Gah, I think I've rambled enough. Thanks for your viewpoint, it HAS helped out in understanding this job, and where it will go in the future.
Vortmax said
"It may be our fault for bringing in the Cyan/GameTap meetings, which has added to the confusion as it seems. (Now that it's becoming clear that has been one of the issues with people.)"
We did actually discuss this with the DRC and they did approve it. So this is no fault of our own.
As to the topic of IC/OOC ... I believe the biggest issue here is that the vast majority of Myst fans are NOT into or just don't care for IC ... and that only a small handful of fans are truly into total IC play. Uru was the first experience for many Myst fans into this realm of game play. This causes the majority to feel left out and not a part of the game.
Storyline is great and necessary, interaction is nice, but shouldn't be required. I remember back during prologue how fed up I was with the in-game interaction and how chaotic it was. It was NOT fun, nor enjoyable. and I'm not the only one who feels this way.
I, personally accepted this nomination in hopes that I could better understand the IC persona and possibly help the rest of us that are in the same position ... understanding IC. But the more I watch and see how many are treated ... I'm getting more and more to the pint where I don't even want to be involved with all this anymore. I'm even questioning my involvement with UrU Live.
I mean ... how many fans have already been alienated and the game hasn't even launched yet. This is not a good indicator of what we are to look forward to. It becomes even worse when your die-hard fans become disillusioned.
My personal feelings right now is to totally scrap the entire DRCL concept and get rid of it. It hasn't served any useful purpose for what it was (supposedly) designed for. The DRC are just as hard to contact as they were before. They have little input to our questions and concerns ... and then we (the liaisons) are the ones that take all the heat ... not the DRC.
One thing I do want to state ... the mis-conception that we (the liaisons) have a buddy-buddy relationship with or have direct links to the DRC ... couldn't be any further from the truth. Often, we have had to go through Cyan anyway, just to get the DRC to check their inbox. Well, we are already talking to Cyan ... so why bother with contacting the DRC ... just go straight to the source. But that is not the IC way ... and so we have to play round-a-bout to get anything done.
Someone asked me once why I cared so much about playing Uru. And my answer was "it's like walking through a myth". And that's what it really is to a lot of us. Atrus, Gehn, Yeesha, Kadish, the Fall, etc. These aren't stories. They are _mythology_. And because of that, I think that what we are seeing here is that there has beem shift in what In Character actually means in our little subculture. (Note most people say In Cavern as opposed to In Character.)
In other MMOGs, assuming a role different than yourself is standard - it's assumed. But the Uru community has held together not because they had a game to play and characters to run, but because of a personal fascination with the D'niverse - they want to experience that universe directly. Role-playing was attempted, sure. And it fell flat on its face time and time again. In the end, what we had were people, not personae.
IC became something different because we didn't have characters, story or gameplay to deal with for 2-3 years. Being IC doesn't mean we are assuming roles. Rather we are assuming the mythology as our own, we are buying into that world.
The "you are you" concept has been mentioned in several places both by Cyan and by the fan-base. I think it is the concept that has been most embraced by the community that kept Uru alive. Over the last 2-3 years, the fans have been interacting as themselves, on the boards, the lysts, at Mysterium, etc. And that's part of what has made it special for many people. Sure, I don't fall in love with Sharper, or Laxman (or even Marie). But I need more than one hand to count the number of real-life relationships that started in Cavern, just from people being themselves in Prologue and UU. And those are just the ones that I know of!
Yes, we all know D'ni isn't real. Yet, people create works of art involving this mythology (look at all the amazing stuff from the last Mysterium - books, stuffed animals, songs). People study the D'ni language and culture by using real-world linguistic analysis and archeological techniques. They don't approach it as a game. They are buying into the world. Uru really bears more resemblance to things like the SCA than it does World of Warcraft.
I think that's why we are seeing this sort of intense behavior in our community. We aren't used to a community where "Dude, it's just a game" is a reasonable response. We are invested more into it than that.
I also think that the hard-core fan base is in for a bit of culture shock. When Live launches, they are going to find these attitudes suddenly in the minority. Most of the people who wade into Uru will be people who are creating characters adhering to the usual definition of IC. They will be saying "Dude, it's just a game" and will shake their head at the people who spend so much time cataloguing D'ni words and making quilts that look like D'ni art.
Does that affect what Cyan does in terms of putting out their game and their story? Probably not that much. But it might help explain the weirdos who stalk them at Mysterium ;)
My first experiences with IC was terrifying. I had never played any computer game was was leery of chatting with others because of all the horror stories I had heard.
A friend talked me into trying URU because he knew I am basically a shut in and needed something to occupy me. So I reluctantly agreed to try it out.
On trying to figure out things the first day I was accosted several times by individuals demanding I join the Sharper group or Yeesha group or I would be an enemy if I did not belong to theirs. This continued until I found a hood that was full of like minded people who did not appreciate the way we were treated by IC people.
They were rude and pushy and if you did not join them they would not speak to you again. Totally ignored me when asking how to do something or find something. If you were not one of them you were not worth the time of day.
For those of us just coming into a game and having no idea what is going on it was not a good first experience. There is never an exuse for rudeness in any game in my opinion. If I am forced to be rude to play live I refuse to do that. There is enough rudeness in RL without it being in a great game.
A better suggestion would be to let players know ahead of time what types of things to do in cavern is available and why and what IC is, and insist that those who are very much into IC role playing stop scaring people off. They might get more people interested if the new person has some idea of why these people are so demanding and being rude.
Nothing prepared me to understand what was going on and I had no idea they were not real, only playing a character. Providing alternate things for people who do not want to be an IC player would be good too.
In my case (and many others I know), they were not very good representatives of a game that I was assured would be friendly and non-violent.
It was interesting to me that a recent post I made on the DRC forum suggested people will talk to me if I use the IC way of speaking or maybe I can find someone to ask the question for me in IC. Do you really think that kind of attitude will be very beneficial to keeping people who are looking for an alternate to all the violence and hatred and killing shown in the other online games.
I will never play those kind of games myself and will avoid the city as much as possible so I don't have to be treated badly by over enthusiastic IC players.
What happened to you, June, had nothing to do with IC vs OOC. It had to do with jerks. Jerks can be found on both sides of the fence, there's just as many stories out there of people who were happy being IC, and were treated badly by OOC people.
The best way to deal with that, is to flat out say "you guys are being jerks", and then walk away. The state of your roleplay isn't an excuse to be blatantly unpleasant at others.
To begin with I'd like to say that I'm more interested in Cyan getting UruLive ready for launch and putting out the finest product possible. How thin would people like to spread the limited staff at Cyan. I've waited and hoped for this for a long time to be concerned with anything else. The DRC and the DRCL at this point is certainly not on my priority list. I've been hearing a great deal of I want this and I want that. Well...I want UruLive.
Give Cyan the freedom of working on priorities and worry about storyline or the role of the DRCL when the more important stuff is done.
Quote vaxjedi:
In other MMOGs, assuming a role different than yourself is standard - it's assumed. But the Uru community has held together not because they had a game to play and characters to run, but because of a personal fascination with the D'niverse - they want to experience that universe directly. Role-playing was attempted, sure. And it fell flat on its face time and time again. In the end, what we had were people, not personae.
I couldn't agree more. Though storyline may be fun....some people take it too seriously and I believe that is what annoys many people. Just because a group or groups happen to love role-playing doesn't mean they should over-ride the enjoyment that others seek in the game. As far as the DRC and the DRCL is concerned, I believe them to be strictly storyline involving the DRC and should not cross over to Cyan.
Quote vaxjeti:
The "you are you" concept has been mentioned in several places both by Cyan and by the fan-base. I think it is the concept that has been most embraced by the community that kept Uru alive.
I also agree with this. I never go involved with the DRC storyline in prologue but from what I've been told, it got pretty nasty. Early on in UntilUru, storyline was once again attempted trying to involve the community and failed. The storyline characters would come to the most populated hood and take over, interrupting whatever interaction presently going on. Eventually people would just link out. Role-playing by quite a few freelance individuals became annoying and distuptive to many of the community causing a great deal of anger at times. It was not a storyline that kept Uru alive for over two years...It was the cooperative interaction and exploration of the D'ni culture by the community (OOC)that kept the cavern alive.
Quote June
A better suggestion would be to let players know ahead of time what types of things to do in cavern is available and why and what IC is, and insist that those who are very much into IC role playing stop scaring people off. They might get more people interested if the new person has some idea of why these people are so demanding and being rude.
Here I have to agree again. Before entering into your role-playing, announce where and when and those who enjoy it will participate.
So if some group of explorers enjoy role-playing that's okay. We're all here to have fun but keep it IC and leave Cyan out of it. In addition a much greater majority of the community are not into it and don't want it rammed down their throat. So be careful when you enter an area or there's bound to be resentment.
SG
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